Socialist candidate Jacobs fields questions on S.F. radio

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working people should own the means of produc Business. products collectively and democratically and estab- patient. well... for Women, has been talking a lot about forming a marches? of reproductive rights. affirmative action. the interhappening with the incredible unemployment and infla- in favor of a labor party. Would you quit your party to tion that is happening in Czechoslovakia and Poland right join a labor party? What would you do? ...

Sylvia: What I tend to find is that more people think now. I'm talking about a different kind of system where JJ: I have a lot of hope for the Labor Party Advocates. the Democratic and Republican parties are dead and that's workers not only own the means of production, but they I think that there's a large segment of rank-and-file workwhy more and more people are just simply not voting for decide how those means of production are going to be ers in unions that are understanding the treachery... either one of them. In fact, they are having a very hard used to benefit the vast majority of people in this con- KOED: I'm not familiar with them. Are they trying Republicans. They feel that they are both phony parties Richard: But if you take away the profit incentive, JJ. This is Secretary Treasurer Tony Mazzocchi trom JJ: I agree with Sylvia that I think people are waking JJ: Well, I don't agree with that. When you live in a [Mazzocchi is agitiating for the formation of an organizaup to the idea that there's really no difference between the system where the only way you can survive is by being tion called Labor Party Advocates (LPA), which is Democrats and Republicans. They are both representing greedy, then you tend to develop the opinion that buman currently on a nationwide membership recruiting camA clear example of that was what happened around the have to work for profit. I don't think that is true. I think recent rail strike. The Democratic Party is supposed to be that human beings are cooperative, that they like to work perspective is that while he's trying to build this labor the party of labor, The labor bureaucracy has always sup- together. I think you saw that after the earthquake when party, which I support, he's also giving support to ported the Democratic Party and has refused to run its everybody came together and helped each other. I think Democratic [Party] candidates. So he's trying to find a own candidates. When the rail workers went out on strike, that's human nature and we need to find another system of middle road, and I don't think there can be a middle road. within 24 hours there was a bipartisan imposition of an social ownership which would further that human nature. The Democratic Party does not represent the interests of unfair contract on the workers through both the houses of KQED: Have you encountered that question a lot? It labor unions. Labor unions are going to have to make a Congress. In the Congress they took a vote and only five seems that with Gorbachev now coming with hat in hand people stood up and said, no, this is unfair to workers. to the Big Seven, are people wondering if your candidacy And in the Senate, they didn't even have a roll call vote, is out of date by 20 years? they did it by acclamation. The labor unions need to wake JJ: Well, you know, it's interesting, I don't think so. was formed that was independent of the Democratic up to the fact that the Democrats have never really been I've found that when I'm out petitioning to get on the Party, I would join that labor party. I would work to their friends and have never really been interested in pro- ballot, for example, I tell people that I'm a socialist, run- build it and work to get its candidates elected. I would tecting their interest. Labor should run their own ning as an open socialist, and more people are willing to also fight within the party for my own ideas and my own sign my petition to get on the ballot than in the past. I perspective about what I thought the labor party should Richard: Hello, yes, this is Richard, I have been in think we have to do a lot of education around what is be doing and what they should be putting forward. So I Czechoslovakia, I've seen massive pollution, I've seen going on in the Soviet Union and to talk about what real don't see that as a conflict. people that were really disillusioned about the system, socialism is, how it has to be democratic, and how that's KQED: I'm curious Joni, when did you join the and it seems like Gorbachev is asking for advice from not what they had in the Soviet Union. That's one of the Socialist Party or when did you become interested in capitalism. And it seems like the candidate's talking the challenges of my campaign. about going back to a communist form of system that Clayton: Hi, Joni, this is Clayton. I have been orga- JJ: Actually, it was around 1987 or so. I'm ashamed doesn't work. People don't care. It hasn't worked. I don't nized by you on various occasions and I am sure you can to admit it, but as a member of NOW I had worked to get make a very good mayor because you are a great organiz- Walter Mondale elected to the presidency. I'm not a redkind of system they had in Czechoslovakia. There the What I am really concerned about though is that you these ideas. But my own personal experience as a woman workers didn't have democracy, For instance, they say the current administration is not representing the in this society led me to believe that there's something couldn't make decisions about what kind of industrial pro- working people. When you are mayor it sounds like you more going on in this country than just the oppression of things in a way that wouldn't destroy their environment. would be representing the working people, but you say women. It is a class thing that's happening here, the rule What they had was a caste of bureaucratic planners who that you won't really be representing the interest of Big of one class over another. One class being the rich, a very lived off the wealth that was created by the Czechoslo- Business. And the mayor has to represent everybody. I'm small, tiny percentage of the population, and the other vakian people. Those bureaucrats are the ones now that really concerned that it doesn't really sound like you have class being the working people, the vast majority of the want to railroad through new programs to further the mar- worked out a plan to represent their interests because they population. Until we change the system so that the workket mechanisms and bring capitalism to those countries. really do have viable interests, people who do business in ing people run this country, run it in their own interests, And the workers are going to lose out too. We see that the city and so on.

8 SOCIALIST ACTION SEPTEMBER 1991 The following is an abridged and edited version of phone-in questions to Socialist Action's San Francisco mayoral candidate Joni Jacobs during an July 22, 1991, interview on radio station KQED.

KQED: Our guest on Forum is Joni Jacobs, a candidate for mayor of San Francisco. If you have any comments or questions for her please call at (415) 863-2476. June in San Francisco, do you have a question for our guest?

June: As a socialist don't you believe that tion and their products and the distribution of their lish a planned economy?...

Joni Jacobs: You know, we have social production in this city. Just taking one example, a hotel. A hotel can't be built by one person, it has to be built using hundreds of workers and then once it's built it has to be run by hundreds of workers. And yet the way it works now, one person or a few people in a corporation will own the hotel. What I want to do is change it so that we not only have social production, we have social ownership. Then the people that work in the hotel will decide how best to run that hotel in cooperation with the people in other areas of the city as Sylvia: I know Joni from clinic defense at Planned Parenthood. I know she had a major responsibility in building the two major marches here in San Francisco for abortion rights when the Webster decision came down. Don't you think that it's about time that we had some more major Joni Jacobs JJ: Yes, I think it's time for another demonstration. The last one was in October of 1989 and we had 60,000 people in San Francisco demonstrating to keep abortion safe, legal and accessible. The National Organization for Women just had their national conference in New York a couple of weeks ago and they've called for a large demonstration in the spring of 1992 in Washington I think that we should be having building actions in San Francisco and other cities in California to build the momentum for that big demonstration, Frankly, I would certainly like to see my esteemed other candidates work ing to nelp build such a march. However, t don t think their endorsements will be anything other than paper endorsements, although I am sure if we build such a march they'll show up to speak to the crowd and try to take credit for being the most pro-choice candidates.

KQED: Sylvia, you have one more question?

time getting out the vote for either the Democrats or the шу.

and I'd like Joni to comment on that.

the interests of the rich in this country. know why s.. will she comment on it.

JJ: Well, the kind of system I want to see wasn't the duction they wanted to have, or how they could produce I think that labor unions need to wake up to the fact that the Democrats have never really been their friends and have never really been interested in protecting their interests.

Labor should run their own candidates' people don't care, they don't want to work.

nature is greedy and that we have to be greedy and we paign-Editors.] JJ: Well, 1 don t agree that the current mayor is representing everybody. I don't feel that he's representing my interests, for example. My standard of living hasn't improved in the past four years, and yet the standard of living of the corporations has. I guess that I don't accept that as an assumption of my campaign and I think that we have to again say flat out I won't be representing the interests of Big Business. What I will be representing are the interests of working people.

Clayton: But you need to represent the interests of everybody in the city, right?

JJ: Well, I think the vast majority of the people in this city are working people, and that's the interest that I want to represent. Like I say, there are other candidates out there who will represent the interests of Big Business, and they will tell you that they are going to represent your interests as well. But you will find out once they are in office that they don't. It's impossible. The interests of working people are counterposed to the interests of Big Business. I want to stand with the workers against Big KQED: Gerry in Livermore, thanks for being Gerry: Yes, Joni, at one point in your opening comments, you mentioned something about baving to vote for the lesser of two evils. At one point, just prior to the presidential election, I heard something about a thing on the ballot which would be none of the above, and if none of the above won, then they have to come up with new candidates. Have you heard anything about that, and what are your feelings about that. I'll take my answer on the air.

JJ: No, I haven't heard that. It sounds like it might be a good idea ... But I think a better idea is to have people run their own candidates to represent their own interests. NOW (the National Organization new party. That was a big part of the discussion at the national conference a few weeks ago in New York. And it's because women are realizing that neither the Democratic nor Republican parties represent their interests. They want to find another party that would represent their interests and further the cause ests of all women.

That's a good start, but they need to also tie it to a labor party, to having a class perspective, because that's the thing that's really lacking in all this. We don't need another third capitalist party, we need a working-class party that can represent the interests, not only of women, but of Blacks, Latinos, of working people, of environmentalists. but it bas to be based on a class understanding of what is happening in this country.

KQED: Pat in San Francisco, you're on the air with Joni Jacobs.

Date TAm I lila unne remarla ahant a lahor narti T think that's a very important idea and I am very impressed by the arguments that you gave in favor of it. Let me ask you this: You belong to another party called Socialist Action, and how does that square with your idea of being to form a new party?

the Oil, Chemical, Atomic Workers Union (OCAW).

But the problem that I see with Tony Mazzocchi's break with them and form their own party.

Now as far as being in Socialist Action. If a labor party socialism? Was it in college?

diaper baby or someone who was brought up with all we're always going to have racism and sexism.

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…..Workers need their own political party When the trade-union movement unites and takes the road of independent political action, working people then become stronger than the opposing class of employers and (continued from page 1: “Polltical independence: Only effective way to fight against gov't, employer offensive”) anti-labor offensive. They are condemned to enter the workforce at wages cut to the bone under "two-tier" wage contracts imposed on our unions in an accelerating series of employer take-backs.

At the same time, our living standards have been further eroded by a bipartisan governmental policy of shifting taxes from the rich to the poor. The rate of income taxes continues to be lowered for the small minority of millionaires and billionaires, and raised for the great majority who work for a living.

Sales taxes of all kinds—which more than any other taxes tall heaviest on those with the lowest incomes-have been systematically increased by local and state governments across the land. Sales and other value-added taxes, moreover, have been relentlessly extended in most cities and states to cover growing numbers of food products and services previously exempted from such taxes.

At the same time, social benefits like unemployment insurance are being distributed to an ever-smaller portion of the jobless. And public assistance to the poorest Americans is steadily being cut back. Hardest hit are the children, who suffer most when their parents are made jobless and driven down into pauperization.

Furthermore, all of our children, including those whose parents still hold jobs, are being increasingly cheated of their right to a quality education by teacher lay-offs and other cuts in the public school system. The shockingly high numbers of so-called functional illiterates produced by the deteriorating educational system is rising. These are our children, working-class children.

Meanwhile, the increasing load of taxes ripped-off from the working class is being handed over to the owners of bankrupted savings-and-loan and other failed enterprises. The "owners" of these collapsed businesses don't lose a penny when government agencies bail them out. And, adding insult to injury, the former owners are further rewarded by being allowed to buy back each other's bankrupted enterprises at a fraction of their remaining values.

In a nutshell, we are experiencing an unprecedented redivision of the wealth of the nation in which the government steals from the poor to give to the rich.

The Republican Party's game is to pretend that letting the rich get richer will create conditions for a healthier economy— which, they say, would indirectly benefit working people. The Democrats, on the other hand, often cry crocodile tears for working people. But when push comes to shove, they line up solidly with the Republicans to smash labor.

That is just what the Democrats did last April, for example, when Congress voted almost unanimously to force striking railroad workers back to work. Then, under the guise of a congressional board, they imposed a harsh takeback contract on the workers, denying them their right to vote for or against it.

A fighting program An effective political program for mobilizing working people in their class interests must be a fighting program that A young labor militant during the Jay paper strike.

bankers.

The old labor slogan, "Forty hours pay for 30 hours work," needs to be placed at the very top of the list of workers' demands.

• A public works program, designed to meet the needs of the entire population. Building adequate housing, schools, hospitals, and environment-friendly mass public transit, moreover, can help guarantee jobs for all!

• Full medical coverage for everyone, fully paid by taxing capitalist profits.

• Unemployment insurance at full union wages for the entire period of unemployment.

• A national escalator clause, keeping all Alexei Folger/Socialist Action can halt labor's retreat, go on the offensive, and win back our right to decent living standards.

Social demands:

• Equal rights for all!

On the strictly economic arena of struggle, the bosses' class is stronger than the working class. This is because they have the government, the courts, and the cops at their service to be used as a club whenever there is a confrontation between them and us.

Moreover, they own and control the mass media of communication—newspament must include demands that will inoculate workers against the divide-and-conquer tactics of the bosses. The labor party program must support:

• Equal pay for equal work for all— women, Blacks, and other oppressed nationalities.

• Affirmative action to correct the injustices of 400 years of racial oppression.

The mouthpieces of the bosses seek to turn worker against worker by charging that affirmative action will have the effect of making white male workers suffer for 400 years of capitalist-inspired racism and sexism. This is absolutely false.

In the 1930s, the new industrial unions overcame the anti-union practices of giant corporations because they became the champion of all working people irrespective of race, sex, or national origin. The CIO took a principled position to achieve real unity by proving to Blacks, women, and other discriminated-against workers that "united we stand, divided we fall" was more than an empty slogan.

A vigorous campaign by the labor movement in support of affirmative action and all other measures for unifying working people would symbolize a renewed upsurge of union solidarity that will make the labor movement irresistible.

What "solidarity" really means Most important of all, when the Black community rises up to protest against racial injustice, when women mobilize to defend their right to choose-whether or not to terminate a pregnancy, for instance-the whole labor movement must also rise up and say: "An injury to one is an injury to all!"

The National Organization of Women (NOW) has called for a mass march on Washington in the spring of 1992 to protest the wide-ranging attack on abortion rights. This is a working-class issue.

When abortion was illegal in most parts of the United States, the wives and daughters of the rich were not in the slightest prevented from having a safe and legal abortion simply by hopping on a plane and going to a place in this country or abroad where it was legal. But working-class women were driven by economic pressures to have life-threatening illegal abortions.

The labor movement must mobilize working people in solidarity with NOW and the movement of women for equal rights. NOW has called for a million supporters of women's rights to come to Washington. If labor puts its shoulder to the wheel, this pro-labor political action could easily exceed that projected number. Such a mass rally—fully backed by the AFL-CIO and independent unions—would shake the very foundations of the bosses' political, economic, and social power in this country.

When the trade-union movement unites and takes the road of independent political action, working people then become stronger than the opposing class of employers and bankers. The old labor song, "Solidarity Forever," gives the time-honored workers' answer to the bosses divide-and-rule strategy in these words:

"When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run, there can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun!"

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