Hormel strike leaders speak: "Let's clean up our own union

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The following is an interview with Jim Guyette and Ray Rogers about the current situation faced by Hormel strikers in Austin, Minn.

Jim Guyette is the former president of Local P-9, which led a militant strike against the concessions demanded by the Hormel meatpacking company. He was suspended as president last spring when the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) international leadership placed P-9 under trusteeship.

Ray Rogers is the director of Corporate Campaign Inc., and was a consultant to P-9 in its strike.

The interview, which is printed below in an abridged version, was conducted on Nov. 20, 1986, by Ben Stone, author of "Memoirs of a Radical Rank and Filer." (See review page 14.J Stone has made this interview available to a number of left publications in the United States.

Question: Where does your union stand right now in its struggle with the Hormel company?

Guyette: Well, the struggle involves not only the Hormel company, but the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union (UFCW), which is doing the bidding of the company at this point.

The company and the international officials are both saying that the boycott of Hormel products has to stop, which tells us that the boycott is having an effect on the company. We know the company is laying off people in other plants. We know the company has sharply reduced its production in the Austin plant and other plants.

Question: You say that the heads of the AFL-CIO have given their support to the international. How do you assess that and how do you plan to cope with it?

Rogers: In terms of assessing it, certainly the leadership of the UFCW and the AFL-CIO feel much more comfortable sitting down with the corporate executives than they do sitting down with the rank and file.

Their interests are not in the interests of the rank-and-file worker. If they were, they could never be involved in this betrayal of our union.

Question: So part of your fight has been to educate the rank and file of any union that has a similar bureaucracy to fight back and bring back democracy within the trade-union movement?

Rogers: I think that one of the big things that has come out of the P-9 struggle is that we've really torn away the facade that the top leadership of the unions has put up. You know, reporters have been going down to these AFL-CIO conventions down in Bal Harbor, Fla., and they come out and say, "What a waste of time. We have to cover it. But nothing ever comes out of it."

It would really be good if the rank-and-file members who pay their union dues could see what goes on at these conventions. They would see that their so-called leaders have no solutions for their problems.

Guyette: I think it's time we started calling things the way they are. If there are illegitimate, irresponsible union officials who are more interested in rings on their fingers than they are about representing their rank and file, then let's say that and let's do something about it. Let's clean up our own union movement.

Question: What are some of the things that can be done to clean up the union movement?

Guyette: We come up with two paths that can be taken, one of which is to work from within. Some are doing that. The other way is to create a legitimate labor organization which the workers see as an alternative. plant for the people to vote on who they want to represent them. At this point there are between 800 and 900 people who are victims of the agreement between the Hormel company and the UFCW. The only way these people will ever get their jobs back is if NAMPU prevails in an election.

People inside the plant who scabbed signed a petition to vote for a new union. The UFCW is delaying the vote because they have made an assessment of those in the plant and know that, if a vote were held today, they would lose the vote.

Question: In the plant?

Guyette: In the plant. Because people have seen what kind of an organization the UFCW is, and people don't want any part of it. And the Austin plant typifies what's happening in the meatpacking industry. The UFCW leadership has been unable to organize in the meatpacking industry because people do not want to join a union in order to give away concessions.

Question: So if NAMPU should prevail, there should be a tremendous increase in union membership in meatpacking?

Guyette: I think that if NAMPU prevails in the election in Austin, you're going to see a landslide occur in the meatpacking industry.

Question: What are the prospects and perspectives of NAMPU?

Guyette: NAMPU can get as big as it wants to get because NAMPU represents democracy in the union. Democracy is a funny thing. When people understand democracy, when they see how it works, everybody wants it.

Question: Isn't part of the problem overcoming the apathy of the rank and file within the other locals and unions?

Guyette: We think this can be overcome very easily, if there is a will to do it. It was overcome in Austin. Union meetings used to be attended by 40 to 50 people. All of a sudden, there were big meetings attended by hundreds. There can be many Austins.

Rogers: There are some locals that have only one meeting a year. But even in those cases where they may hold more meetings, the rank and file is never given an opportunity to get up and say anything. There's never a presentation about the kind of a program that people can believe in—no kind of vision.

Ray Rogers So that's the situation you have from the international structure on down. And that's because if the rank and file starts taking some interest and wants to do something, it might decide to vote the people at the top the heck out and have a real union, like P-9, where the members decide everything.

Question: The Democratic governor of Minnesota, Rudy Perpich, sent in the National Guard against P-9. No Democratic Party politician stood up for P-9. Does this mean that most strikers have become disillusioned with the Democratic as well as the Republican Party?

Rogers: I can tell you one thing. From talking to the rank and file in Austin, I have a hard time believing that anyone cast a ballot for Rudy Perpich.

Question: Is it true that several P-9 strikers ran candidates on an independent ticket in Austin?

Rogers: Yes. There was "Skinny" Weis (sheriff of Mowar country), Floyd Lenesch (alderman-at-large), Randy Emilusen (alderman-at-large), and Tom Keough (state senator).

Guyette: There were some people who ran, but I think that Austin, Minn., has to be viewed in the context of the American public itself. Ronald Reagan was elected by only 32 percent of the people in this country. Twenty-three percent voted for Mondale, and 45 percent didn't vote at all.

That means that there are a tremendous number of people who are frustrated and disillusioned in the two-party system. Look who came to Austin. Jesse Jackson. The idea of the Rev. Jackson coming to Austin would have been a foreign idea just three years ago.

Question: Jesse Jackson has given no indication that he is ready to split from the Democratic Party. Would it not be better to have an independent political party based on the labor movement, i.e., a labor party?

Rogers: Certainly, I would like to see a political party that really represents the interests of working people.

Guyette: I definitely think there is a need for a party to represent the working people, a party to represent the farmers, who are working people.

It seems to me that there's something wrong in this country when farmers go broke and working people lose their jobs. We have grain inventories stockpiled, and yet the lines of the hungry and the displaced seem to grow and grow. There is a need for change and that need is growing day by day.

Question: Is there any kind of publication put out to keep the public informed as to the developments taking place in P-9?

Guyette: Before the trusteeship, we had a publication called The Unionist that came out every week. The UFCW has taken that over, which they claim they have a right to do. They have reduced it to a comic book, making caricatures of Ray and myself.

Our support group in Austin is putting out a newsletter, which is distributed on Fridays together with groceries.

Question: What is it called?

Guyette: The Support Report. You can get it by writing to the United Support Group, P.O. Box 396, Box 396, Austin MN 55912.

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