Lucio Jimenez speaks

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FSLA battles to build their unions. The took on the National Guard and the police and they fought against all the laws that banned the unions. The American unions were built by struggle-independent of the Democrats and Republicans, who opposed them all the way.

Garcia: In my opinion, the Democratic and Republican parties don't represent the people. Our experience has shown us that both Democrats and Republicans supported Somoza.

In Nicaragua we had a similar situation prior to the revolution. We had the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party. They represented the ruling elite. Later they became the agents of Somoza and his cronies. They operated Somoza's courts and system against the Nicaraguan people.

This was the case until the poor and oppressed people, many of whom considered themselves Liberals and Conservatives, stopped relying on these parties and took their destiny into their own hands.

When these people came to the conclusion that their wishes and aspirations were not being responded to by either of those two parties, they were then able to build a mass popular movement, under the leadership of the FSLN, that ultimately paved the way for the revolutionary victory. the Middle East. It is clear, however, that decisive aid, even though in meager and insufficient amounts, comes from the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe.

The Nicaraguans must pay a price for their still cordial, although cooling relations with capitalist governments. They must maintain their commitment to preserve a dominant sector of the Nicaraguan capitalist class in the framework of the mixed economy and abide The following is an interview with Lucio Jimenez, general secretary of the Sandinista Trade Union Federation (CST) of Nicaragua. The interview was conducted by Jeff Mackler in Managua on Nov. 5, 1986, Socialist Action: What is the CST?

Lucio Jimenez: The CST- is the largest industrial union federation in Nicaragua. It represents 100,000 members in the food, textile, sugar, oil, metal, longshore, and construction industries.

S.A.: What percentage of the employers you deal with are private and what percent are public? And what kind of controls can your union exercise on those companies that are owned by the capitalists?

Jimenez: In the case of the sugar industry, 50 percent of production is in the hands of one private producer. Half of oil and soap production is private. We could go on down the list and say that about 40 per -cent to 50 percent of industrial production is in the private or mixed capital sector.

The state has a capacity of control over these enterprises which is quite high. At one point we had some very severe problems of decapitalization by the private sector. What we did was propose the confiscation of some of these enterprises -and some were confiscated. The govern -ment has also drafted a law to prevent decapitalization.

But in general our efforts are directed at getting the workers to understand that what is fundamental is to produce for the revolution-independently of whom they may work for. Production is the most important task of the revolution.

S.A.: What are the central reasons why A 283 by their promise to pay back Somoza's foreign debt to the imperialist bankers. This is a pledge that the revolution is not a threat to world capitalism.

More and more, however, Sandinista leaders are finding that this pledge can only be kept at the expense of the people themselves and that the Nicaraguan capitalist class is incapable of advancing the interests of the workers and peasants. This deep contradiction within the the government and the unions don't ta ke over the private industry and simply run themselves?

Jimenez: What we are trying to do is consolidate the vital production sector of the economy—which is the state sector.

What matters is not the percentage of production that remains in the private sector. What is important is the influence we can exert on all other sectors and branches of the economy through the medium of the state.

Moreover, we cannot eliminate the private sector by decree. A large percentage of our private sector is made up of small industrial entrepreneurs who are really more like artisans.

We may consider keeping a large private industrial sector—so long as it produces for the revolution and fulfills its social obligations.

S.A.: Do you have the right to look at the books of the employers to know what their profits and production are?

Jimenez: No. We don't have the formal right. But in practice we have been able to look at the books. Many times we have workers who are very close to the managers of these companies.

But financial control is not even that crucial because in many cases these companies are subsidized by the state, meaning that the state can exert its control over the credits and distribution of inputs to these companies.

S.A.: There appears to be a growing black market or informal sector of the economy. Why should a member of your Socialist Action/Jeff Mackler Nicaraguan Revolution, though, has yet to be definitively resolved.

But even if the Sandinistas were to break with the mixed economy, the dependent and backward character of its economy underscores the fact that, by itself, Nicaragua cannot break out of the straitjacket of underdevelopment imposed on it by the international capitalist system.

In the last for example, whatever