Eugene Carroll: 'The Freeze is as strong as ever'

Scan page 7

Gene Carroll is the national labor coordinator for the Nuclear Freeze Campaign. He was formerly the field and disarmament coordinator for the Coalition for a New Foreign and Military Policy. The following interview was conducted by Michael Schreiber.

Socialist Action: What is the state of the Nuclear Freeze movement today and what are the tasks before it?

Gene Carroll: The Freeze Campaign is as strong as it has ever been in terms of its grassroots presence across the country. We have Freeze organizations and groups in almost all 50 states.

The problem we have right now is on the national level with Reagan's smokescreen in Geneva concerning arms negotiations with the Russians. Many members of Congress who have expressed support for the freeze are somewhat reluctant to push it because they feel as if they have to give Mr. Reagan a chance at Geneva.

The National Committee of the Freeze Campaign, which just met on May 3-5 in Denver, is going to pursue a national petition drive based on the theme, "Don't just talk; freeze now."

It will provide a critique that says that we need to move forward with serious negotiations based on not just managing the arms race, but on actually stopping it.

It will point out that we should have a freeze now as a good-faith measure during the course of negotiations.

S.A.: Did Reagan's Star Wars plan and the endorsement by Congress of the MX scheme lead to any demoralization in the antinuclear movement? Cangress eventually voted to stop funding the Vietnam War because public pressure became so overwhelming.

I believe that non-violent civil disobedience and mass actions are also needed, and needed in large numbersmore than ever before. We should encourage non-violent civil disobedience as long as it's done with strategic implications in mind and thought through very well.

S .A.: How best do you think we can involve labor in the antinuclear movement?

Carroll: The more that we link the escalating military budget to the material conditions of American workers, the stronger the labor involvement is going to be.

One of the ways that the peace movement can promote labor participation is by supporting local, state, and national initiatives for economic conversion and economic renewal. We must begin to pull the rug out from under the arms Ann.

itrail. mail threats to continue the production of weapons systems.

In California, for example, that's a very big issue. The state is heavily defense dependent. You have workers working in defense plants who look out the window and see two choices: Either they stand in an unemployment line if they leave their job, or they continue to build bombs.

There has to be an effort to go beyond the already-convinced. That means doing some basic things like trying to get on the agenda and speaking at meetings in union halls.

I like the petition campaign because it gives people a chance to participate simply by signing their name. You're not asking them to quit their jobs and change their life to support your issue. The petition campaign sparks debate on the shop floor and gets people involved.

S.A.: Can you point to recent successful examples of labor's participation in antiwar activities?

Carroll: The National Jobs with Peace Campaign, the Nuclear Freeze Campaign, and the National Labor Committee in Support of Democracy and Human Rights in El Salvador have all been involved in efforts to get trade unionists to speak on these issues as trade unionists.

Right now there's a group of teachers from El Salvador who are touring the country speaking to trade-union groups.

winitor apartheid struggles-speaking about the apartheid issue from a labor perspective-is a very powerful voice for opposition to apartheid. In Southern California, the Unions for Jobs with Peace and a Freeze organized Proposition 10, which called for a cutback in military spending and redirection to social programs. Those are excellent examples of how we can do this work.

S.A.: What successes did the April 20 mobilization have in involving labor?

Carroll: I was frankly disappointed at the inability of some of the national trade unions to endorse and participate in this march. It was too bad not to see AESCME, SEIU, and UAW taking part in it. These and a few other unions would normally be strongly involved in these issues on the national level.

It made me think that some labor leaders don't yet see the need for allies, especially after what happened in November. On the national level that was a disappointment, although the unions that did involve themselves worked hard and gave a lot. I do know there were good efforts at the local level trying to involve labor.

The San Francisco march was a success precisely because it really involved the labor movement in the San Francisco area in the mobilization. That's why you had such a big turnout in San Francisco-over 50,000 people. I think that stuff just has to continue. • PAIX " roxod.

----- pull-quotes -----

*SELLSCHAFT STO •VREDE * 10

fo NAB Jim West Changes